Stephanie Roberts, CFO (Old Navy, Specialized, Rothy’s) on Building a Career Without Losing What Matters

[00:00:00] Roy Notowitz: Hello and welcome to How I Hire, the podcast where today's top executives share stories of their leadership journey, including defining moments that tested their values, sharpened their judgment, and shaped how they build teams and lead with purpose. I'm Roy Notowitz, founder and CEO of Noto Group Executive Search. You can learn more about us at notogroup.com. As a trusted partner to mission and values-driven consumer brands, we've had the privilege of working alongside some of the world's most inspiring operators as they've tackled the challenge of building high-performance leadership teams. In this podcast, we spark a conversation about how to achieve success in hiring and create purposeful leadership for the next generation of companies. Stephanie Roberts joins me on the podcast today. Stephanie's a seasoned executive leader who's currently coaching CEOs and CFOs through FLG Partners, which is a highly regarded CEO, CFO, and board advisory firm. Stephanie started her career in pharmaceuticals and made her way to Gap Inc., where she rose up through the ranks to become CFO of Old Navy. In addition to her large company corporate experience, Stephanie served as CFO at more entrepreneurial, growth-oriented companies such as Specialized, Rothy's, ThirdLove, and Rad Power Bikes. She brings decades of deep operating experience across consumer, retail, and e-commerce sectors to help boost executive performance for C-suite and financial leaders. Stephanie and I discuss the costs of overworking. She also talks about how she builds long-term relationships with her teams and direct reports, and we discuss the true measures of leadership impact as she's defined them. Stephanie, thanks so much for joining us. It's great to have you on the podcast.

[00:01:50] Stephanie Roberts: Oh, thank you very much. I'm super excited to be here.

[00:01:53] Roy Notowitz: Awesome. So, I know you were one of eight kids and the only one to go to college, and you moved out at 17. What was it about that upbringing that became an advantage later, not just something you overcame?

[00:02:09] Stephanie Roberts: You know, I learned very early that no one was going to come to rescue me. Like, most people hear, you know, you're one of eight kids, I had a mom who struggled with alcoholism, moved out at 17, and they just assume the story is just about disadvantage. And, I guess it was in a lot of ways, but it also gave me something-- like, I was never afraid to talk to anybody. I never thought I was better than anybody, and I never thought anybody was better than me either, which is kind of interesting, given how I grew up. I would think that it's actually rare. A lot of leaders either talk down to people or they're intimidated by people above them. And, I don't know, I never had either instinct. I just talk to people like people.

[00:03:00] Roy Notowitz: Right. Do you feel like adversity is something that builds character and builds motivation in people? How does that show up for you?

[00:03:10] Stephanie Roberts: For me, like, it was the thing. And I remember raising my two boys, one of them, at 15, we were driving in a car, and he said, "Mom, I'm worried. You have such drive because of the way you grew up, and you have this grit about you of 'figure it out,' but we've been raised in this very, you know, quiet home where things are provided for us, and I just don't know if I have those same skills." I thought it was super interesting. So, yes, I credit a lot of who I am to how I grew up, and I wouldn't change a thing.

[00:03:51] Roy Notowitz: So, when you look back at the home you grew up in and the parent and leader that you've become, what did you have to learn or teach yourself along the way?

[00:04:02] Stephanie Roberts: You know, honestly, I think I just observed everything. Like, I was very aware that I was not like my siblings, actually, in this regard; somehow I was different, and I don't fully know why. But I watched family structures on TV shows, or I watched the parents of the kids that lived on my street who seemed to have it all together. So, like, instead of learning from what was actually modeled for me at home, I just did the opposite. I built my own picture of what was normal and what wasn't. And, when I look back now, like, I didn't realize it at the time, but my mom just leaned on alcohol because she was most likely depressed and needed real help, and it wasn't really available then. So yeah, I moved out when I was 17, and I built a life that looked nothing like the one I grew up in. You know, no one was telling me to study, or take SATs, or what the path was to a four-year college. Like, none of that existed for me. So, like, how does someone go with that background, right? And end up being the CFO of Old Navy? You know?

[00:05:21] Roy Notowitz: Incredible story. Yeah.

[00:05:23] Stephanie Roberts: I think it's just the same skill, just redirected. Like, I spent my whole career watching how people led. And, listen, I've had some great bosses, and I've had some not-so-great bosses, and I would do more of what motivated me in how I led. So I was learning leadership in real time, like, the same way I learned parenting in real time, by just paying close attention and choosing deliberately not to repeat what I experienced growing up. It's like I was born with a PhD in common sense, honestly. And I remember thinking--

[00:06:01] Roy Notowitz: Yeah.

[00:06:02] Stephanie Roberts: --This can't be the way a child is supposed to grow up in a hou-- like, like, this can't be the way. I... Like, if I could change my circumstances, I would. But I often, when I was, you know, 12, 13, 14, I would kind of look at my life as if I was outside the bubble looking in. But yeah, I'm grateful, actually. I'm grateful for everything. I'm grateful for how I grew up and the lessons it taught me, which I think you just learn by going through it.

[00:06:30] Roy Notowitz: Yeah. So, to set the stage for the rest of the conversation, can you give us a brief summary of your career so everyone understands your path and where you've been?

[00:06:40] Stephanie Roberts: So, when I think of my career, I think of it, I suppose, in three segments. I spent 12 years at Centex Corporation. The company was acquired by Hoffmann-La Roche, so they don't exist anymore. But it was a large pharmaceutical company in Palo Alto, and that's where I built my foundation on financial operations and treasury.

[00:07:03] Roy Notowitz: Mm.

[00:07:03] Stephanie Roberts: And then, after they were bought out, then I went to work for The Gap, which is where I spent the majority of my career, so 17 years at The Gap.

[00:07:11] Roy Notowitz: Wow.

[00:07:12] Stephanie Roberts: And I started there as a manager in corporate finance, and then, for the first 10 years, I split my time between corporate finance and then the outlet division, where I moved up from manager to senior director. But it was the last seven years, when I transferred into Old Navy, that my career really took off. I became the vice president of finance for Old Navy, and then, eventually, their CFO. So that was the second segment of my career. And then we'll talk a lot about how much I value time, but, in 2012, I left, and I actually took a year sabbatical. In 2013, I joined Specialized Bicycles, which was a real novelty to work at a company that values outdoors and being athletic. But it was also my first founder-led company, which was a real shift from, like, large, publicly traded Gap, Inc. And then I thought, "You know what? I like this founder-led." And I actually did a pivot where I joined a CFO consulting firm. I joined FLG Partners in 2016, and we provide CFO coaching to both public and private companies. So, for the last nine years, I've done that, and I've worked with just amazing, mainly consumer products brands and different business models. I come in, and I have to quickly assess the business model -- what's working, what's not working. So that's kind of my total career in, like, three segments, with a year sabbatical in between.

[00:08:48] Roy Notowitz: So how did you choose finance as your path?

[00:08:52] Stephanie Roberts: When I was in eighth grade, I was put in a special math class. Like, they were like, "We've hand-selected you because you're really good with math." And it just came so easy to me. You have a formula. You apply it. They change variables. Like, I could always figure that out. So I kind of just did what I was good at; however, if you met me at a party, people would say, "So do you work in marketing?"

[00:09:20] Roy Notowitz: So it's probably a good combination, actually, of the ability to work across the organization and build relationships, but also with the financial attention to detail.

[00:09:29] Stephanie Roberts: Exactly.

[00:09:29] Roy Notowitz: Yeah. When you became a leader, how did your own life experience -- all these things that we just talked about -- shape the way that you responded to people on your team who are going through hard things, or just in general, how you supported and showed up as a leader?

[00:09:46] Stephanie Roberts: First of all, if someone looked at my LinkedIn profile, they would be like, "Oh, she has great experience, and everything was up to the right." What they don't know is, like, the real struggle I had. I just have a real empathy for people struggling because I lived it as a child, and even in my 20s and 30s and 40s, just, like, constantly trying to figure life out. I was a working mom. My husband actually became a stay-at-home dad when our kids were four and six. And then I felt immediate pressure to perform at work. I mean, he made the ultimate sacrifice. He was a police lieutenant, and he gave up his career so I could build mine.

[00:10:31] Roy Notowitz: Wow.

[00:10:32] Stephanie Roberts: So I was a breadwinner, and I really understood what it felt like to be stretched in, like, six different directions. So, like, when someone on my team was going through something, first of all, I had a real sense for it, like, whatever it was, a sick kid, or maybe a divorce, or financial stress. I didn't see that as any performance issue for them. I saw it as the most important thing happening in their life, and I treated it that way. I always wanted to be in support of that. It's never about the job, right? It's always about their life.

[00:11:09] Roy Notowitz: Yeah. So you've talked about feeling like you've had to outwork everyone. Where did that belief come from, and how did that shape you or show up in your day to day?

[00:11:24] Stephanie Roberts: I think this is where it's easier when you're older and wiser because you're super comfortable talking about things that you were insecure about earlier. But I always used to say to myself, "Listen, I may not be the smartest person in the room, but I'll outwork everyone." And I just generally believe that. Given the background we've talked about, although I have a four-year degree, I didn't have a traditional education. I didn't go off to a four-year college. I went to school at night. I never got my MBA. I didn't have stability growing up. Like, I figured the only way to compete was to be the most prepared person in the room.

[00:12:06] Roy Notowitz: Yeah. Can totally relate to that.

[00:12:09] Stephanie Roberts: So what I didn't realize is: I was smart. I was smart. I, I just didn't know it or believe it, and I had imposter syndrome long before I knew the phrase existed, and here's what that cost me: I had no standards for myself. Everyone else's needs ranked higher than mine.

[00:12:32] Roy Notowitz: Hmm.

[00:12:33] Stephanie Roberts: And my time felt less valuable than other people's time. I was such a people pleaser that I put myself last, my health, my own needs. My priorities were my work and my boys, and everything else was a distant, like, fifth. And I was constantly preoccupied and wasn't truly present. Like, I would just work every Saturday and Sunday morning, like, most weekends, because, come Monday, I wanted to have the answers to every question about our business results. And every day -- you know, this is when I worked for Old Navy -- like, I knew what our sales was, margin was, traffic was, conversion, and I was definitely the most prepared, and this is why I got promoted, but it just wasn't sustainable.

[00:13:23] Roy Notowitz: Yeah. It is a success factor when somebody is willing to put in the hard work when they need to do it, but I totally agree that there is a cost to that.

[00:13:32] Stephanie Roberts: Yeah. It just can't be week after week after week. I remember when I worked at Old Navy, people would say, like, "How are you?" And my first thought was, "Ugh, I'm so busy." And I'm like, "I am so tired of saying I'm so busy."

[00:13:48] Roy Notowitz: Yeah. You described yourself as having one setting, full light, no dimmer. What did that look like day to day, and when did you first notice that you couldn't sustain that level of pace and effort?

[00:14:02] Stephanie Roberts: I'm not a particularly emotional person to begin with, but, put me in a situation where I felt like I was an underdog, I would just prove everyone wrong at any cost. And when I say I don't have a dimmer switch, it's honestly like, were there times where I put in 75% effort, 100% effort, 125? No. I always gave it, like, 150, maybe--

[00:14:29] Roy Notowitz: Mm-hmm

[00:14:30] Stephanie Roberts: --130. I don't know. It was always full light or nothing. Don't know exactly where that came from, but it's probably related to the "didn't think I was smart enough, so I would out-hustle everybody." But when did I notice it wasn't sustainable? There wasn't a moment, but there was a series of moments. And, for anybody listening to this, trust your gut as you start to observe things that are happening in your life. Like, there was an important swim meet that really mattered to my son that I missed. I would be working during family events, kind of sneaking away, checking email. But my body started to just telling me what my brain wouldn't admit. But I ended up in urgent care because I just had chest pressure and trouble breathing, and then they ran an EKG, which was a bit scary, and it came back fine. And the doctor just looked at me and he says, "I don't know what you do for a living, but you need to get your stress under control."

[00:15:32] Roy Notowitz: Wow.

[00:15:34] Stephanie Roberts: So, like, I guess that was the moment. Like, it wasn't a single bad day at work. My body literally could not keep up with the pace that I was demanding of it.

[00:15:46] Roy Notowitz: Yeah. I can totally relate to that. I think a lot of people can. So then from that point forward, how did that change?

[00:15:55] Stephanie Roberts: So that was December 2011. In January of '12, my favorite boss in the whole world, Tom Wyatt, the president of Old Navy, gave notice. In February, I decided I was going to take a year off, which was really hard because the CEO just left Old Navy, now the CFO's going to leave. But yeah, that's when I made a really big pivot, and I took a year off, and I just needed to get off the hamster wheel.

[00:16:24] Roy Notowitz: What'd you do for that year?

[00:16:26] Stephanie Roberts: There wasn't this dramatic, "Oh, I traveled the world." My youngest son was graduating from high school, and I just said, "Listen, before you go off to college, like, I want to have a fun summer with you." We did go to the London Olympics. That was super fun.

[00:16:43] Roy Notowitz: Awesome. If you could go back and talk to the version of you who said yes to everything, what would you tell her?

[00:16:50] Stephanie Roberts: I would tell her: time is fixed. You get 24 hours every day, no more. Your life is not a dress rehearsal, so, every time you say "yes" to someone else, you're saying "no" to something. And sometimes that's your kids, that's your health, that's yourself. I would also tell her being a people pleaser isn't kindness. It's actually a bit messed up if you think about it. It means you've decided everyone else's time and needs are worth more than yours, and that is not generosity. That's just a broken allocation of time.

[00:17:33] Roy Notowitz: You've written about something called time affluence. What does that mean to you?

[00:17:38] Stephanie Roberts: So I would say that, most of my life, I focused on financial security, which, I mean, obviously, that made sense where I came from.

[00:17:47] Roy Notowitz: It's important, yeah.

[00:17:49] Stephanie Roberts: But, like, eventually, I came across this concept of time affluence, which means the sense you regularly have enough time for people and things that matter. I feel like we're all starved for time.

[00:18:02] Roy Notowitz: Mm-hmm.

[00:18:03] Stephanie Roberts: So what just struck me is I achieve financial affluence through this working hard and, you know, making it to CFO of Old Navy, et cetera, but I actually was time bankrupt. So I had spent years acting as though money was so scarce and time was unlimited, but the truth is exactly the opposite. I gave it to meetings and emails and other people's priorities. And the people that mattered most just wanted more of my time. And so I guess that's my biggest lesson I wish I had learned earlier, but I try not to live with regret. But that's the thing I would change

[00:18:49] Roy Notowitz: A lot of people ask me, "What exactly do you do at Noto Group?" We partner with entrepreneurs, founders, executives, investors, and boards to help them build high-performance leadership teams that excel and endure. We've had the privilege of working with more than 250 leading brands, from early-stage innovators to global icons, and we've placed hundreds of executives along the way. As a Certified B Corp since 2013, and proud 1% for the Planet member, it always starts with your mission and values in finding leaders who can bring those to life. If you're curious, you can find out more by visiting our website, notogroup.com. Thanks, and now let's get back to our episode.

So let's talk about FLG Partners. Can you tell us about the company and what scenarios call for an interim CFO?

[00:19:45] Stephanie Roberts: Think of FLG as kind of like a law firm where you might have, I don't know, 20 lawyers, right? But, instead of law, we're all CFOs. So we're kind of a boutique, high-end, high-quality CFO consulting firm. And there's three things we offer broadly. One is what we call a fractional CFO, an interim CFO, or just straight coaching. And a fractional CFO is like for a smaller company that they've never had a CFO. They might have had a controller or a head of finance. They don't need a full-time CFO, but they need the guidance. So, we'll come in maybe one day a week, maybe two days a week, or maybe just, you know, even a few hours to help the CEO guide important decisions around the allocation of capital or fundraising, et cetera. So that's fractional. Interim is like the substitute teacher that comes in. They have a CFO. The CFO left for whatever reason, and we're brought in while the position is open and while they're doing a permanent search.

[00:20:57] Roy Notowitz: Mm-hmm. Yeah, we do that sometimes when we're doing a search. We'll help find a interim, or they'll have an interim in place. Yeah.

[00:21:06] Stephanie Roberts: Yeah. Hard to run a company without a CFO, and, as you know, searches for that level can take three to six months. And then coaching is where I'm focused now and super excited about it. But it's providing coaching as needed to either CEO, CFO, or both. And, generally, like, it's an hour a week. I have clients now where they can just call me whenever they want. It's super helpful, and they just want to bounce things off of me, you know, in terms of inventory purchases, or their next hire, or raising money, or how to renegotiate a line of credit with their bank. Things like that. So that's FLG.

[00:21:53] Roy Notowitz: So I want to shift back a little bit and talk about at what point in your career you think your leadership style fully evolved, where you felt like that uncertainty you had early in your career kind of disappeared, and you'd had your own unique fingerprint or stamp on what you do.

[00:22:11] Stephanie Roberts: Yeah. It was probably two themes. The first theme is: I originally thought my job as a leader was to retain key talent. Like, no matter what, retain key talent. But, if that's your goal, that is the goal of the company. But that may not be the right answer for your direct reports. Like, they might want to, you know, go to a different company and gain different experience, or there's not a promotional opportunity at the company, you know, that they're at now. And so I stopped optimizing for retaining talent, and I started optimizing for what was best for them.

[00:22:56] Roy Notowitz: Okay, that's really interesting.

[00:22:57] Stephanie Roberts: And I think this is really where I'm very, very different. You know, once I really started leading this way, there was only one time that someone gave notice that surprised me.

[00:23:08] Roy Notowitz: Mm.

[00:23:08] Stephanie Roberts: Anybody else that gave notice, I was part of their transition. And I remember saying, they're like, "Listen, I'm thinking of leaving, da blah, blah, blah," and I'll be like, "Hey, can you just get me through year-end? Like, get me through year-end, and then I will help you find the right job." So I guess the thing is when people know you're not just trying to keep them, they actually want to stay longer, and loyalty becomes voluntary instead of transactional. So that, that would be my first theme. The second theme, which is very, very related, is the relationship I build on knowing them and their priorities. So I can give you countless examples, but I want to talk about two people that worked for me recently at Rad Power Bikes, Megan and Derek. Listen, this company was struggling badly post-COVID, excess inventory.

[00:24:06] Roy Notowitz: As most bike companies were, yeah.

[00:24:09] Stephanie Roberts: Yes.

[00:24:09] Roy Notowitz: Especially, yeah.

[00:24:11] Stephanie Roberts: Real uncertainty. And, despite the risk of staying somewhere that unstable, they stayed, along with many other employees, because they knew if the company didn't make it, I would be there to help them and their teams find what was next. And I'm super close to both of these people. I actually attended Megan's wedding in Michigan. Derek lives in Salt Lake City. I'm trying to schedule a visit to see him and his family. So, listen, titles disappear. Companies change. Careers evolve. But what lasts are the relationships. And so, I guess that's the real measure of leadership impact is not what someone does while they work for you, but whether they still want you in their life when they don't work for you. I would say that's the second anchor point. I build long relationships, and a lot of these people come work for me again.

[00:25:09] Roy Notowitz: You've talked about your job wasn't just to teach people their roles, but to teach them things about life. Can you give an example of a lesson that maybe didn't have anything to do with the job itself?

[00:25:22] Stephanie Roberts: Yeah. I just don't want people to go through everything I went through. Like, I learned the lesson. And so, when I lead people, especially men or women with young children, I talk about my story, and I just tell them, like, "Protect your time. Set your own standards. You know, don't let your self-worth depend on how many people you said yes to." And the other thing I do constantly with my direct reports is I'll be like, "Listen, I'm going to keep asking you to do things. Like, I'm going to keep loading your plate. Just know I am, and it's your responsibility to come back to me and say, 'I'm on overload. Can we reprioritize?' And as new things come down the pike, they could be way more important than something I asked you to do last week."

[00:26:10] Roy Notowitz: Yeah, exactly. So, if you had to put your leadership philosophy into one or two sentences, what would be the thing underneath all of these stories?

[00:26:18] Stephanie Roberts: I think the one thing that I actually haven't talked about yet is just advocating for my people. There was a time at Gap, Inc., I was a senior director. I think there were 12 of us senior directors, and they created four vice president positions. But there had been so much turnover at the CFO level, no one advocated for me to take one of those spots. We had a new corporate CFO and some new divisional CFOs. And I just realized, listen, part of my job is advocating the great work that my direct reports are doing. So that's a really, really big thing. And then the second thing was not only helping them build a successful career by building skills, but a successful life. Those are the two things, is advocating for my people. Making sure they don't burn out by having them reprioritize, you know, whatever they're working on, and, if willing, letting me help them with not making the same mistakes that I made.

[00:27:26] Roy Notowitz: Yeah. Have you seen, despite your best efforts, some folks still falling into those traps?

[00:27:34] Stephanie Roberts: Yeah, I think we all do. I think it's like three steps forward, one step back. And, just this year, in January, I wrote my first, and I think I've done seven posts on LinkedIn on "What Would Stephanie Say?" And so the reason I started that is because the different people that I've worked with, they'll reach out to me, and they'll be like, "I have a situation."

[00:27:59] Roy Notowitz: Mm-hmm.

[00:28:00] Stephanie Roberts: And they want my advice. And what I appreciate is it's that constant struggle with, "What's the right decision?" Or, "I'm working for someone that I don't really like working for," or, "I love the company, and I love my boss, but I want to do something different." So yeah, I think that everyone learned from me, but it's a journey to just constantly balance what's important and what your priorities are. And I think they come back to me when they're ready to make a pivot, too, that sounds scary. And I help them think through the options.

[00:28:37] Roy Notowitz: Yeah. That's awesome. So now looking back at all of this, is there anything that you would do differently if you could go back in time?

[00:28:46] Stephanie Roberts: So I wouldn't have changed how I was raised. I wish I could fast-track the confidence. So I think I hit, like, ultimate confidence by the time I was 40. I just wish, if I could change something, that I would have been a little bit more confident in my 30s and set stronger boundaries. And the biggest thing then would be to value time and just really have standards where I'm like, "Yeah, I'm not going to work every Saturday and Sunday." Like, I'll work Saturday and Sundays before a big board meeting, and I would have spent more time being present with my kids and not so preoccupied with work.

[00:29:29] Roy Notowitz: I think a lot of people can relate to that.

[00:29:32] Stephanie Roberts: It's such a hard thing.

[00:29:33] Roy Notowitz: Yeah.

[00:29:33] Stephanie Roberts: Like, it's so easy to say, right? But yeah, like I said earlier, I was financially affluent and time bankrupt.

[00:29:43] Roy Notowitz: So, let's talk about the future, and what are you most excited about as you think about the future now with all this wisdom and experience? You know, what do you want to do with that moving forward?

[00:29:54] Stephanie Roberts: So, at FLG, I am now focused on purely coaching CEOs and CFOs, and I love it. Of course, we still talk about, like, finance, and strategy, and board decks, and leadership, but we also talk about real things like allocation of time, and stress, and priorities, and relationships. So I think it's yet another pivot I'm making. Like, if I can help a CEO not over-hire, there won't be layoffs. If I can help a newly-promoted CFO, the hacks of being a great CFO, then maybe their children won't get shortchanged on time. So, yeah. If I could help even a handful of leaders skip the burnout or not missing that one important swim meet, like, that's a far better legacy than anything I've accomplished driving earnings for a company.

[00:30:51] Roy Notowitz: Yeah. Wow, that's really cool. Well, you're an inspiration to so many. Thank you for being so open about sharing your story and your challenges. I think a lot of people can relate to this. The fact that you overcame and that you've become such a, an incredible leader and that you care about people so much is just really inspiring, and I'm so glad you came on the podcast to share this so that other people can benefit from your experience and wisdom.

[00:31:18] Stephanie Roberts: Thank you, Roy.

[00:31:24] Roy Notowitz: Thanks for tuning in to How I Hire. Visit howihire.com for details about the show. How I Hire is created by Noto Group Executive Search. To find out more about us, visit notogroup.com. You can also sign up for our monthly email job alert newsletter there and find additional job search strategy resources, as well as more content on hiring. This podcast was produced by Anna McClain. To learn more about her and her team's work, visit aomcclain.com.

‍