Heather Flynn (Aritzia, ASML, Nike) on Talent Acquisition Strategy

[00:00:00] Roy Notowitz: Hello and welcome to How I Hire, the podcast that taps directly into the best executive hiring advice and insights. I'm Roy Notowitz, founder and CEO of Noto Group Executive Search. You can learn more about us at notogroup.com. As a go-to firm for purpose-driven companies, we've been lucky to work with some of the world's most inspiring leaders as they've tackled the challenge of building high performance leadership teams. Now, I'm sitting down with some of these very people to spark a conversation about how to achieve success in hiring and create purposeful leadership for the next generation of companies. Today, I am sitting down in person with Heather Flynn. She's a talent acquisition expert with an extensive resume recruiting for major brands such as ASML, Nike, and Intel. She most recently served as the SVP of Talent Acquisition at Aritzia, where she's applied decades of experience developing talent strategy, scaling recruitment, and delivering transformational results. In our discussion, she shares key advice to enhance any organization's approach to finding and retaining top talent. Together, we talk about the essential role of holistic recruitment strategy, contextualizing talent data to heighten its organizational impact, and crucial ways that employers can compete in a challenging talent market. Heather, thanks for joining us today. It's great to have you here. I've been looking forward to this conversation.

[00:01:32] Heather Flynn: Yeah, I'm really excited to be here and be here in your studio.

[00:01:35] Roy Notowitz: Let's start with you walking us through your career journey.

[00:01:38] Heather Flynn: So you hired me to be a recruiter at Intel, and I was coming from a search firm where I was doing sales, so that was really my first recruiting job you hired me into. So thank you.

[00:01:49] Roy Notowitz: I remember our interview.

[00:01:50] Heather Flynn: That was great. So that was the start. So over 25 years ago. And since then, my career has, I'd like to say, progressed, sometimes it felt like it went sideways. But I've worked for some smaller companies, some startups, mid-size, and then two really large companies at both Nike and ASML. And I have led the functions, and then I've also, like, when I was at Nike, been part of the leadership team and had a team of really amazing peers that I worked with, and that was a great experience. My career has been in– always recruiting, leading teams, and in retail, biotech, and technology. And so it's been pretty great, and it's uh, definitely a career that I didn't know about when I went to college, but something that I fell into, and I love it.

[00:02:36] Roy Notowitz: I don't think anybody knows about recruiting until--

[00:02:40] Heather Flynn: I know.

[00:02:40] Roy Notowitz: --it happens to them.

[00:02:41] Heather Flynn: Until they're in it. Yeah.

[00:02:42] Roy Notowitz: Yeah. So what was your first job in high school or college? And what did that teach you about people? And--

[00:02:50] Heather Flynn: Yeah.

[00:02:50] Roy Notowitz: --how did that help you?

[00:02:51] Heather Flynn: Yeah, so I grew up in a really small town, Forest Grove, Oregon. Population 11,000 when I was living there -- I'm not sure what it is now. And it's an agricultural town. And so the job that I had was I worked at a fruit processing plant. I think I was 14 years old, so between my freshman and sophomore year.

[00:03:11] Roy Notowitz: Wow.

[00:03:11] Heather Flynn: And I was working swing shift and graveyard. And the fruit was picked every day, so it had to be processed every day. So we worked seven days a week for probably six to eight weeks straight.

[00:03:23] Roy Notowitz: Wow.

[00:03:23] Heather Flynn: And it was--

[00:03:23] Roy Notowitz: And this was in the summers?

[00:03:25] Heather Flynn: In the summers.

[00:03:26] Roy Notowitz: Okay. And you're 14. They allowed 14 year olds.

[00:03:28] Heather Flynn: Fourteen. I think that's, again, we're really dating ourselves. I think that was back when you literally had a work permit card, and you could show that your parents said it was okay for you to work. And it was a lot of hours, and it was a lot of hard work. And I was quality control and the forklift driver, so it was--

[00:03:47] Roy Notowitz: Two very different things.

[00:03:48] Heather Flynn: Two very different things.

[00:03:50] Roy Notowitz: Sounds like fun because you could taste stuff, and you could drive a cool--

[00:03:53] Heather Flynn: Yes.

[00:03:53] Roy Notowitz: Forklift.

[00:03:54] Heather Flynn: Yes.

[00:03:54] Roy Notowitz: Yeah.

[00:03:54] Heather Flynn: So it was a lot of work. And what was interesting about it-- I did it for seven summers.

[00:03:59] Roy Notowitz: Wow.

[00:03:59] Heather Flynn: And it was very hard.

[00:04:00] Roy Notowitz: I can't even imagine.

[00:04:01] Heather Flynn: And it's really was eye opening, and it wasn't anything I had really been exposed to before. And it taught me how, like, even when you're working really hard, you can find good friendships, and relationships, and find the fun in the work.

[00:04:15] Roy Notowitz: What is it about recruiting that's made it an enjoyable and rewarding career for you?

[00:04:22] Heather Flynn: Early on, the first time, like, when you hired me at Intel, and I went from being in sales to being a recruiter, the first thing that I really noticed was that people called you back. And I was like, "This is amazing." Right? Now I'm not selling something.

[00:04:36] Roy Notowitz: Yeah.

[00:04:36] Heather Flynn: I'm trying to talk to somebody about a job, and so they'll call you back, and that was really interesting. Early on, I felt what was really great about the career was, if I was a recruiter and I was working with, I don't know, at the time, a director, a senior director, or a VP, because I was filling a job for them, I had this exposure so quickly to senior level executives, and I really liked that. And I would take those opportunities, when I would have a one-on-one to do an update on the role that we were searching for, I would start talking to them about different things, and I felt like it gave me all these informal mentors, and it really taught me a lot about the leadership skills. I was able to learn and glean skills from a variety of leaders. So that's what I loved.

[00:05:22] Roy Notowitz: And you had a pretty big team at Nike as well, right?

[00:05:24] Heather Flynn: Yeah.

[00:05:25] Roy Notowitz: How, how many?

[00:05:25] Heather Flynn: Nike was probably, I'd say 15 directs, and then, indirectly, it was much bigger because I was leading the North America geography, which, at the time, it was about 14 billion. The largest team I led was at ASML, and that was probably close to about 130 when I left there.

[00:05:42] Roy Notowitz: Wow.

[00:05:43] Heather Flynn: And the full scope of the work, which included the employment branding, and operations, and university, and all of those pieces.

[00:05:52] Roy Notowitz: So why is talent strategy important? What are the components of a holistic talent strategy? And how does that tie to the business strategy?

[00:06:01] Heather Flynn: Fundamentally, a talent strategy is going to be core to any organization's business strategy, and it's going to basically mean you're going to have the right people in the right roles at the right time to, like, propel the business forward. The components of that I think are super complex, and there's probably 10 key things, and most organizations have some of this going on, some of it going really well, but usually not all of it. And even if they have all of it, those groups are maybe at a different level of maturity within the organization. So, first off, talent acquisition, which I know we'll get deeper into. Workforce planning, which is the forecasting future talent needs. Employment branding, positioning the company to be an employer of choice. Onboarding and integration. Learning and development. Performance management, right? Where you're aligning individual goals with the organizational needs. Succession planning, so you're prepared for the future with what your leaders need.

[00:07:00] Roy Notowitz: Nike was really good at that.

[00:07:01] Heather Flynn: Nike was the best at that.

[00:07:03] Roy Notowitz: Yeah.

[00:07:04] Heather Flynn: Yeah, and I think at all of the organizations I've been at, I think Nike is the furthest along--

[00:07:09] Roy Notowitz: Yeah.

[00:07:10] Heather Flynn: --on almost all of these.

[00:07:11] Roy Notowitz: A lot of companies really fall short there.

[00:07:12] Heather Flynn: Yeah. The succession planning. The last few would be engagement and retention, making sure that you're an organization where people want to work.

[00:07:20] Roy Notowitz: Yeah.

[00:07:20] Heather Flynn: And then DE&I. How are you making sure that your company represents the consumers and clients that you're serving and making sure that you have the best diverse team? And then, the last part, which could be, maybe ,the most important part, is the technology and data analytics. A lot of data. And a lot of organizations either have the data and don't know how to analyze the data, or the data that they have isn't really great.

[00:07:46] Roy Notowitz: Right.

[00:07:46] Heather Flynn: Because it's a little bit of garbage in and garbage out.

[00:07:49] Roy Notowitz: Yeah.

[00:07:50] Heather Flynn: But those, I think, are the components that make a holistic talent strategy.

[00:07:54] Roy Notowitz: What trends, challenges, opportunities are top talent acquisition leaders at leading global companies thinking about or focused on currently?

[00:08:06] Heather Flynn: For global TA leaders, it's balancing efficiency with experience, like, being able to do more with less. Budgets are getting cut. People aren't sure. It's an unstable market. What are we doing? People may not want to hire. And so, if you can have a proactive strategy, great. And, as long as you're agile-- because there's always going to be things that come at you that you're not expecting, and so you have to have some agility and fluidity, like, built into your function as business changes. Candidates are a little untrusting, like, there's layoffs going on. With this market uncertainty, people aren't going to be really interested in making a move.

[00:08:47] Roy Notowitz: Right.

[00:08:47] Heather Flynn: And so, like, being super authentic and having the brand that really speaks to the candidates that you want to attract. And then having, you know, recruiters really be strong with their communication and engagement. I think that matters. And then, lastly, this has been a conversation for two years, but I would say really in the last year, AI and the ethical concerns that it may or may not have.

[00:09:11] Roy Notowitz: Yeah.

[00:09:11] Heather Flynn: And AI, to some organizations, and especially recruiting organizations, may seem like it's so far out there. You know, "I'm just trying to fill these four jobs right now. I don't know about AI," but it's in--

[00:09:23] Roy Notowitz: It's here.

[00:09:23] Heather Flynn: It's here.

[00:09:24] Roy Notowitz: Yeah.

[00:09:24] Heather Flynn: And it's in all of the tools that you're using. It's in your tech stack if you're on LinkedIn, or your ATS, or your candidate scheduling tool. So, it's out there, so you need to understand it. You need to be able to speak to it. You need to be able to know that things are going to change in the future.

[00:09:41] Roy Notowitz: Yeah.

[00:09:41] Heather Flynn: It's just another thing that's going to be evolving and changing, but if you can hook into it early, if you go back to, like, balancing process efficiency, AI could eliminate so much of the administrative, low-level work--

[00:09:57] Roy Notowitz: Yeah.

[00:09:57] Heather Flynn: --that your team is doing.

[00:09:58] Roy Notowitz: What are the key building blocks or elements of a successful talent acquisition strategy? What are the KPIs, the objectives, and things that you're looking at?

[00:10:07] Heather Flynn: So I think you want to make sure that you are aligned with what matters at your organization. You really have to know what impact and what your company cares about in your leaders. So, that said, there's one metric that I love, and I think I've introduced it at almost every organization I've been at since Nike days, but I call it "time to identify." And I'm sure I didn't come up with it, but what I think time to identify does is it tells me how good my recruiters are. How well do they know the market? How well do they know the business leader? How well do they know where these candidates are that we're looking for? And that metric is, from the time the rec is open and you've done the strategy intake meeting with the hiring manager, to the time that the recruiter presents or pushes that candidate to the hiring manager.

[00:10:55] Roy Notowitz: Right. How long it took them to find the one that they're going to hire.

[00:10:58] Heather Flynn: Right. And so you're thinking with this, you go, "Okay, then, after that, how long it takes to actually get the offer accepted." There's a lot of variables in there that recruiting doesn't own, that we can't impact as much. So I'm like, "I, myself and my team shouldn't be held accountable for a time to fill metric." We can influence it. We can help make it better. If somebody goes on vacation.

[00:11:24] Roy Notowitz: Yeah.

[00:11:24] Heather Flynn: Or they can't meet. Or we're flying people out for three rounds of interviews. Right? I think definitely, like, time to fill, time to start, quality of hire. I think this is important, and, typically, that's a after the fact, and usually, it is a measurement that comes from the hiring manager. How fast did they onboard? Are they being productive? Are they delivering what you've asked? Like, those are the questions, and you're asking the hiring manager. So it is somewhat subjective.

[00:11:51] Roy Notowitz: Yeah.

[00:11:51] Heather Flynn: Because there's also the halo effect.

[00:11:53] Roy Notowitz: Right.

[00:11:54] Heather Flynn: But then I think you would go a year later and look at their reviews and ratings. So that's a long-term play. I will say, I haven't been at a lot of organizations that do that or do that very well in perpetuity.

[00:12:08] Roy Notowitz: Yeah. Interesting.

[00:12:09] Heather Flynn: Offer accept rate formula; it matters for sure when you're doing volume recruiting. You know, if you have to have 500 people starting to open a retail store, and, you know, there's 10% fallout. That variable is you really need to hire 550 people.

[00:12:24] Roy Notowitz: Right.

[00:12:24] Heather Flynn: That's a big difference, right? Source of hire is one of my favorite metrics. I think it speaks to quality in the moment, right? Like, where are most of your hires coming from? And if you know they're coming from employee referrals, let's do all we can to amplify that channel, right? If we know they're coming from a very specific university or, I don't know, a job posting, whatever that is, let's get after that. Spend more resources and time amplifying those channels, but also knowing we should always be investing and looking at additional channels to feed the funnel. Cost per hire is one that people like to talk about a lot. That one has so many variables. Do you include relocation costs? Do you not? But you can come up with a baseline of that. For me, that's never really been something I've tracked unless that's been something that somebody else has wanted me to track. And I think one of the big things that really matters is candidate experience. One of the things that always stood out for me, and it comes back every year, time and again, the number one reason why candidates leave the interview process is that they feel their time was disrespected. And so there's all these opportunities where candidates are thinking, "If this is how you are when you're interviewing me and trying to get me here--"

[00:13:42] Roy Notowitz: Right.

[00:13:42] Heather Flynn: "--what's it going to be like when I'm here?"

[00:13:44] Roy Notowitz: Yeah. So, when you step into an organization, how do you assess the current hiring bar and begin to define or evolve what good looks like in that organization?

[00:13:57] Heather Flynn: Yeah, so I have had a couple of times I've been hired into a newly created role. I will say there's four things that I would look at, and one is the recruitment maturity model, like where is the organization in the evolution, right? Is it survival? Stabilize, optimize, or innovate? Ranking the-- that. Then you look at the org assessment, which would be the people, process, technology, culture. And culture is maybe how the company operates and where they put recruiting in the mix there. The hiring manager maturity model, which is relatively new, and really assessing the hiring managers that you work with and if they are advocates of the process.

[00:14:41] Roy Notowitz: It's so variable, the degree to which a hiring manager or executive is capable of evaluating and assessing candidates. How do you figure that out?

[00:14:51] Heather Flynn: Right.

[00:14:51] Roy Notowitz: And how do you help those individuals who maybe aren't as capable or competent?

[00:14:56] Heather Flynn: And, like, how do you get people to care about it? I mean, that's one of the things. I think that talking about it, versus their actions and what the hiring managers or business leaders of an organization do to really become like this culture of recruiting. And I think that is a big unlock, not because it's not my job as the recruiting leader to do that.

[00:15:19] Roy Notowitz: Yeah.

[00:15:19] Heather Flynn: But because it's really everybody's job to be a brand ambassador and helping be a attractive place that people want to work. What you could call, like, the high point of that would be a talent champion. And they're somebody that's, like, deeply embedded in, like, the professional organizations of their business. They're out at speaking events, and they're, like, a attractor to people and, you know, helping others. And like you talked about, people know how to ask questions, but do they know how to assess and answer when it comes back?

[00:15:51] Roy Notowitz: Right.

[00:15:51] Heather Flynn: And knowing what good looks like.

[00:15:53] Roy Notowitz: Right. And are they being consistent--

[00:15:55] Heather Flynn: exactly.

[00:15:56] Roy Notowitz: --with candidates?

[00:15:57] Heather Flynn: Exactly. I always think that's one of the biggest unlocks.

[00:16:00] Roy Notowitz: Yeah.

[00:16:00] Heather Flynn: Because I can help train and upskill my team, and I can structure them in the right way, and do that.

[00:16:06] Roy Notowitz: Yeah.

[00:16:06] Heather Flynn: But the big unlock is that hiring manager, business leader engagement.

[00:16:11] Roy Notowitz: So what do you do to raise that bar for the hiring executives so that they are at the best--

[00:16:20] Heather Flynn: Yeah.

[00:16:20] Roy Notowitz: --that they can be--

[00:16:21] Heather Flynn: Yeah.

[00:16:22] Roy Notowitz: --for hiring?

[00:16:23] Heather Flynn: I think there's several things that you can do, but, if you look at the data, you could pull apart the applicant funnel and see, if people are falling out of the funnel, are they opting out? If that's the case, why is that? And if you can use some of those talking points to go back to your business leaders to say, you know, we're losing talent because we're not getting back to them fast enough. We're not getting feedback. When we're asking them questions, we're asking them the same question 10 times--

[00:16:54] Roy Notowitz: Yeah.

[00:16:54] Heather Flynn: --even though we have all these different interview guides, right? So can you make sure that your process is streamlined? Do you have the right interview templates and guides? Are you leading a, a brief to talk about what are the jobs, the competencies? Roy, what are you responsible for when you're interviewing this candidate? What am I responsible for? Get your fundamentals in line. And then, after that, it would be some basic interview training, I think. How do you ask questions? Like, what are you listening for in these answers? Do you know the values of the organization? Can you clearly articulate those? It seems like simple stuff, but sometimes, the simple stuff isn't easy. You just have to really, like, delve into it, and always, if you can use the data to help inform those conversations with your business leaders, I think it--

[00:17:44] Roy Notowitz: Yeah.

[00:17:44] Heather Flynn: --it pushes you further along.

[00:17:45] Roy Notowitz: So how do you help, like, hiring teams get to the best decision or choice if they have two or three really good candidates to consider?

[00:17:55] Heather Flynn: So, one thing is trying to figure out how are decisions made in your organization, right? And does the hiring manager have the ultimate say? And who influences them? I think, in recruiting, we are, for lack of a better term, like, the gatekeepers, right? We should only be letting through really great talent. We should also be pushing our leaders to think differently, open the aperture, look at skill sets in a tangential way, versus "somebody that's worked for a retailer before is all I want." Why? Can't you bring somebody in from a tech company that's going to have a different way of working? Like, I think that is the role of recruiting to help push. And when recruiters have great relationships with their business leaders, they can do that. When you get to a debrief session, and you're talking about candidates, and you have three great candidates, then I think you really want to push the leader to be like, "Is there somebody here that you see that could be-- is the next generation, right? Not what you need right now. What's the future state of the organization?" And you should know that, and the business leader should know that so that you're thinking, "Okay. How did the candidates stack up for what you need right now, and, aspirationally, like, where we're going as an organization in the future? And, looking at your team, is there a specific gap that one of these three people fill that, you know, that would set you apart?" But those conversations won't even happen if you don't have really strong talent advisors that are willing to speak up, versus just listening to the conversation that's happening.

[00:19:28] Roy Notowitz: Yeah, that's interesting.

[00:19:30] Heather Flynn: Yeah.

[00:19:30] Roy Notowitz: So what's the weirdest or most surprising thing that you've ever seen on a resume?

[00:19:36] Heather Flynn: Yeah. Okay, so, way back in 2002 ish, a candidate came into the office and brought his resume printed out on a sheet cake.

[00:19:46] Roy Notowitz: Oh, interesting.

[00:19:48] Heather Flynn: It was pretty amazing.

[00:19:49] Roy Notowitz: I've never seen that.

[00:19:50] Heather Flynn: Never seen it. And it was so great because, of course, like, we took it, and we read the resume and we ate the cake. I want to say it was, like, somebody in call-- like, he really was trying to get an entry level job.

[00:20:01] Roy Notowitz: Yeah.

[00:20:01] Heather Flynn: And it just wasn't working in the traditional ways.

[00:20:04] Roy Notowitz: So he--

[00:20:04] Heather Flynn: It was really good.

[00:20:05] Roy Notowitz: He tried to be memorable. That's funny. What do large, fast growing global consumer brands look for in a leader? And how has that profile changed over the last five years?

[00:20:16] Heather Flynn: So, as we know in the last five years, right, it's been a very interesting, maybe volatile time, a lot of things happening. But I will say this, the-- one of the things that you need if you're a consumer focused brand, like, every executive needs to be consumer obsessed, right? They need to have that consumer mindset, whether you're in finance, marketing, or HR, right? That's a, just a given. I think the global agility and local sensitivity is something where you have to have this broad, global mindset, but the local sensitivity of the regions and the markets where you're doing business, you know, you always want leaders that can represent and speak to your values, know the products, the clients, making sure your company is sustainable, and, you know, that those are the things that matter, but really being purpose driven. And then, in the last five years, I think what's gotten even more important -- everything else -- is, like, really data-driven decision making. We talked about AI tools, like, how are those embedded throughout your organization? And if they are or aren't. And if you are or you aren't using them, you need to know what they are, and the impact that they could have, and be able to make the case to your CEO or whoever your executives are to have those tools in your organization. And then just resilience. Having some agility and resilience because things are constantly changing. And how can you be this calm when things are stormy so that your team feel safe and secure? And that you've got this, we've got this. And there's that mindset that you have to have as a leader and always have, but I think even more so now because even a leader that's been through everything is getting new things thrown at them in the last five years.

[00:22:13] Roy Notowitz: Yeah. Let's talk about hiring for your own team. Aritzia is a super hot brand.

[00:22:19] Heather Flynn: Yeah.

[00:22:19] Roy Notowitz: Based in Canada, but all over. And can you tell me a little bit about what that was like working for such a really--

[00:22:26] Heather Flynn: Yeah.

[00:22:27] Roy Notowitz: --hot brand?

[00:22:27] Heather Flynn: It's a, it is definitely a hot brand, and my daughter is 18, and she is bonkers--

[00:22:32] Roy Notowitz: Yeah.

[00:22:32] Heather Flynn: --and all of her friends are bonkers for that brand. And, you know, Aritzia does an incredible job of creating these beautiful spaces, and beautiful clothes, and everyday luxury, and it's a bit of a rocket ship right now.

[00:22:46] Roy Notowitz: Mm-hmm.

[00:22:46] Heather Flynn: I think what's hard is that it's a very well known brand. It's 40 years old, so, in Canada, it's really well known. And here in the US, it's one of those if you know, you know, but in some markets, it was pretty unknown. And so recruiting and hiring to open some of those stores was more challenging than it should have been, I thought. And so we did a lot of work with branding. We tried some new things with paid media campaigns that really took off on the socials because we were going for, you know, our target market.

[00:23:20] Roy Notowitz: Yeah.

[00:23:20] Heather Flynn: And really helping to educate the business leaders there on who the target audience is in the US for employees, and who we want to go after, and the different channels we're going to need to go to because we can't just count on our reputation. That is very Canada-centric.

[00:23:37] Roy Notowitz: Right.

[00:23:37] Heather Flynn: So I think that's been eye opening for the organization, and we've had some strong success with that.

[00:23:42] Roy Notowitz: It's a cool job, and I know it was a big job, so. So as you think about the future, what's next? What are you most excited about?

[00:23:51] Heather Flynn: Yeah, I'm really excited about getting one more big, global TA job. I'm not sure exactly what that's going to be. I'm looking at retail, tech, biotech. I'm excited about working with some really great people.

[00:24:07] Roy Notowitz: Well, I really appreciate you coming in. I think you're going to land someplace amazing, I'm sure, and I look forward to seeing that and continuing to work together.

[00:24:16] Heather Flynn: I know. It's so exciting. I mean, it's so funny to think we've known each other for--

[00:24:20] Roy Notowitz: It's been like 25 years.

[00:24:21] Heather Flynn: It's unbelievable, and it's just been great. It's so fun how our paths, like, continue to weave in and out and so many people that we know.

[00:24:29] Roy Notowitz: Yeah. That's for the best part is all these relationships, not just within talent acquisition and recruiting. That, I mean, that's a pretty close community, a lot of us know each other, but just all the amazing leaders and people that we get to talk to.

[00:24:41] Heather Flynn: Yeah.

[00:24:41] Roy Notowitz: And work with on a day-to-day basis is-- it always keeps it exciting and interesting.

[00:24:46] Heather Flynn: It's super exciting. And I guess I could just close this off by saying I owe it to you because you hired me way back in the day with my first recruiting job.

[00:24:54] Roy Notowitz: I saw your potential.

[00:24:55] Heather Flynn: You saw it.

[00:24:57] Roy Notowitz: I think there's a few other people involved in that hiring, like Jessica and a few of other people--

[00:25:01] Heather Flynn: That's true.

[00:25:01] Roy Notowitz: --that were in that interview, but you did a great job, too, there and always had a great attitude, and it served you well. So.

[00:25:08] Heather Flynn: Yeah. Thank you. That was fun.

[00:25:10] Roy Notowitz: Thanks so much for being here, and we'll hopefully have you back--

[00:25:14] Heather Flynn: Yeah.

[00:25:14] Roy Notowitz: --when you're in your new job.

[00:25:15] Heather Flynn: Yeah, I would love that. Thank you. This was a real treat.

[00:25:20] Roy Notowitz: Thanks for tuning in to How I Hire. Visit howihire.com for more details about the show. How I Hire is created by Noto Group Executive Search. To find out more about us visit notogroup.com. You can also sign up for our monthly email job alert newsletter there and find additional job search strategy resources, as well as more content on hiring. This podcast was produced by Anna McClain. To learn more about her and her team's work, visit aomcclain.com.

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