"Business as Unusual" with fmr. Ben & Jerry’s CEO David Stever

[00:00:00] Roy Notowitz: Hello and welcome to How I Hire, the podcast that taps directly into the best executive hiring advice and insights. I'm Roy Notowitz, founder and CEO of Noto Group Executive Search. As a go-to firm for purpose-driven companies, we've been lucky to work with some of the world's most inspiring leaders as they've tackled the challenge of building high performance leadership teams. Now I'm sitting down with some of these very people to spark a conversation about how to achieve success in hiring, building teams, and how to create purposeful leadership for the next generation of companies.

David Stever is joining me today. He's the former CEO and CMO of the iconic ice cream brand Ben & Jerry's. David first joined the company back in 1988 as a tour guide at their factory in Waterbury, Vermont. He quickly moved up within the business and spent three and a half decades leading marketing initiatives and stewarding the unique culture of one of the most beloved brands in the world. He joins me on the podcast to discuss his incredible journey, leading through growth, working with the big corporate parent, and balancing the brand's product, economic, and social missions, while making game changing hires and building great teams. David, thanks so much for joining me on the podcast. It's great to have you here.

[00:01:23] David Stever: Thanks, Roy. Thanks for the invitation. Appreciate it.

[00:01:25] Roy Notowitz: I'd love to just dive right in with a question about the beginning. So take us back, you know, what was your first spark or interest in the industry? And how did that evolve into the career that you've built?

[00:01:40] David Stever: Okay, we're going to have to go in the way-back machine. If we go all the way back to 1983, Ben and Jerry, they had just come out with a campaign called "What's the Doughboy Afraid Of?" And it was a campaign against Haagen-Dazs. And, at that time, Pillsbury was the owner of Haagen-Dazs, and Ben and Jerry were just starting to get out of Vermont, and New Hampshire, and expand. They actually went into the Boston market, and then Pillsbury went to the distributors in the Boston market and said, "Hey, if you want to have Haagen-Dazs, then you're going to need to drop Ben & Jerry's. You can't have both. And Ben and Jerry knew it was restraint of trade. They also knew they probably didn't have the money to fight Pillsbury in court, so they created this campaign, and they flew airplane banners over Boston. They took out ads in Rolling Stone Magazine. They created a 1-800 number. Jerry flew out to Minnesota and was a one man picket out in front of Pillsbury headquarters. And soon the press got so bad that Pillsbury let Ben & Jerry's use the distributors.

[00:02:48] Roy Notowitz: Wow.

[00:02:49] David Stever: And it actually launched Ben & Jerry's nationally. And this was, again, back in 1983. I was getting out of high school and I thought, "Those guys are badass. That's pretty cool. Maybe someday I'll work for them." Fast forward to 1988, that's when I started working for Ben & Jerry's as a tour guide.

[00:03:05] Roy Notowitz: Wow.

[00:03:06] David Stever: And sales at the company, at that time, were about 50 million, was there through the acquisition by Unilever in the year 2000, and sales were about 200 million. And, as of last year, sales at Ben & Jerry's were about 1.1, 1.2 billion.

[00:03:22] Roy Notowitz: Wow.

[00:03:23] David Stever: The brand's in 38 countries, over 500 scoop shops, and I always like to quote the Grateful Dead here: "What a long, strange trip it has been."

[00:03:32] Roy Notowitz: From tour guide to CEO.

[00:03:35] David Stever: That's correct.

[00:03:35] Roy Notowitz: That's a great story. And also the story you shared about how they dealt with Pillsbury. I mean, it's one of the great things I love about entrepreneurs is they figure out a way to be successful no matter what they're up against.

[00:03:48] David Stever: Right, right.

[00:03:49] Roy Notowitz: So, that's brilliant. So what was it like to work with Ben and Jerry in the early days?

[00:03:55] David Stever: Well, it was definitely very entrepreneurial, and if I just start, even with the year that I began, it was a pretty epic year because that was the year that Ben and Jerry created the flavor Chunky Monkey, which is a pretty cool flavor. They came out with a product called Peace Pops. It was a novelty ice cream on a stick, covered in chocolate. And the goal there was to try to get 1% of the military budget directed towards peace programs, which would be, of course, billions of dollars. And Ben Cohen, of course, is still fighting for getting that military budget redirected, to this day. It was also the time where Ben and Jerry won the Small Business Persons of the Year Award from then President Ronald Reagan, ironically. And it was the year they came out with the three part mission, which was really revolutionary at the time. Basically the first triple bottom line saying that you need to balance the product mission, the economic mission, and the social mission and weigh them all equally in your decision making. So that was the early part. And then there's always been these two quotes that have guided Ben and Jerry, that Ben and Jerry are known for. And Jerry's quote is, "If it's not fun, why do it?" I used to like to say, "If it's not fun, get the sales team to do it." And then Ben's quote was, "Business has a responsibility to give back to the community." And, in the early days, and even the present day, all employees at Ben & Jerry's get three free points a day. That's not a week--

[00:05:19] Roy Notowitz: Wow.

[00:05:20] David Stever: --That's a day. Um, dogs are allowed in the office. Uh, when the production crew was cranking out ice cream, there was a weekly masseuse coming in to give everybody massages, and there was also a five-to-one salary ratio where the highest paid employee could only make five times what the lowest paid employee made. So this whole concept of linked prosperity. And on the social mission side, again, there was that 1% For Peace initiative, but there was also a big effort around labeling transparency, the right to label the products rBGH free, so recombinant bovine growth hormone, and then, later on, trying to get transparency around GMOs as well.

[00:06:00] Roy Notowitz: Wow. You started when it was at this really interesting phase where they're really coming into their own and their values, and you help scale into a global, billion dollar business.

[00:06:12] David Stever: Hmm.

[00:06:13] Roy Notowitz: What leadership lessons emerged for you through that transition? I'm sure there were different phases of growth, and I know you were the CMO for 12 years, so different roles, different phases. What were some of those leadership lessons that you can share with us that were impactful?

[00:06:33] David Stever: Yeah, the main task was how do you scale the business with soul? And there were so many entrepreneurial learnings from Ben and Jerry. And then what made it special, the three part mission, that linked prosperity business model, and then how do you take that and plug it into the machine and leverage the size and scale of Unilever? So I worked for Ben & Jerry's before, you know, the acquisition by Unilever for 12 years, and actually worked for Unilever for 24 years. So, actually, twice as long within the Unilever framework versus simply being owned by Ben and Jerry's. One of the things that people glom onto is that Ben & Jerry's and SlimFast were acquired in the same week, and the Ben & Jerry's business model thrived and kind of accelerated under the leadership, and then SlimFast, they ended up getting sold to a different entity.

[00:07:26] Roy Notowitz: So how did your leadership need to evolve then as the organization matured, and especially post-acquisition by Unilever?

[00:07:35] David Stever: The focus was how do we prove that this model works? How do we prove that a triple bottom line business can be as successful, actually even more successful, than a business that's just focused on profit? And it was in the early days where we really need to professionalize the approach. You know, I think that was important. And I think, at one point, I counted that we had created 32 guides at Ben and Jerry's: a social guide, a style guide, a tone of voice guide, and, my personal favorite, a humor guide -- what's in bounds for humor for Ben and Jerry's. And the brand also was very good, very nimble, about tying into cultural flashpoints, whether that was something that was happening on the nonprofit world, or the activism world, or if it was just pop culture. And, actually, in order to do that within the Unilever model, as I like to say, it took a lot of planning to look spontaneous. So the brand and the teams really needed to kind of have the process in order to let folks know what we were doing, what we were going to be participating in, and make sure that we were able to get it approved and do it with speed.

[00:08:44] Roy Notowitz: So your path ultimately led to you becoming a CMO.

[00:08:47] David Stever: Mm-hmm.

[00:08:48] Roy Notowitz: What do you think made you great at doing that? Because you obviously were in that role for a lengthy period of time and were very successful in it. What was it about that that you enjoyed most or that you felt was a formula for success?

[00:09:04] David Stever: Yeah. As the CMO of Ben and Jerry's, I, as you mentioned, I don't remember if it was 12 years or a baker's dozen -- or 13 years, but, um, it was a long time in the seat, and it was one of those things where you just constantly learned as you went along. I think for me, I love this quote where a turtle doesn't make progress unless it sticks its neck out. And so, in order for us to continue to be relevant in the space, we had to stick our neck out from time to time. And, at, at one point we had a consultant group come in and look at the brand health of Ben and Jerry's, and the consultant group basically came to the conclusion that, you know, "I think you as a business might have peaked, and you might actually be going down that other side of the hill." And so, for me, it was like, "Okay, not on my watch. How do we not have this happen?" And so I had always had this idea for a flavor named after a Saturday Night Live skit and it was called Schweddy Balls.

[00:10:00] Roy Notowitz: Oh yeah, I remember that skit.

[00:10:02] David Stever: I think it was 2000--

[00:10:04] Roy Notowitz: Peter Schweddy.

[00:10:05] David Stever: 2011, maybe? Yes, Pete Schweddy. And it was one of those things where, "Okay, this may be the time to do this flavor." So it was, again, a very cult following for that skit. Had to sell it in across Unilever. Had to sell it in to the Ben & Jerry's board of directors. And then, at that time, we had a new CEO who was actually Norwegian, who had never seen the skit, but once he saw the skit, he's like, "Okay, I'm in." And I remember going home to my wife that evening, and I said, "This is either going to be a really good thing for my career, or I'm going to get fired." And we launched it, and it worked. People went, and sought it out, and grabbed it off the shelf. It did get kicked out of Walmart because a spouse of one of their board of directors complained. So they pulled it, but that actually made it even more popular and people wanting to find it. So that kind of kicked it up a notch as far as turning into: what does a CMO need to do in order to keep a brand relevant? And, you know, and it is sticking the neck out every now and then. And one of the beautiful things about Ben & Jerry's is it attracts amazing people. And I think when people are working for something greater than selling a product, it elevates them. And when I saw the opportunity to be the CMO, one of the things that I realized was it's a time to tap into all of those talented people and let them shine, let them have their ideas come to life. And sort of another learning for me was -- this was a personal learning -- I, at one point, when we were acquired by Unilever, we had a new head of marketing and all of the ideas that I was coming up with were getting shot down. And so I said to myself, "Well, I had this one idea that I really wanted to see happen," so I wasn't going to tell him about it. And I started creating it on the side, and it was for a flavor called Festivus after the Seinfeld show. So I worked with R&D on developing a flavor. I worked with the design team on developing what that pint would look like. And then I actually reached out to Jerry's executive producer, Howard West, and had a conversation with him and actually got a contract all ready. And then a week before our sales meeting, I went in to the head of marketing and said, "I have this idea, I'd like to share it with the sales teams. And what do you think?" And he actually agreed at that time that it was a good idea, and we should go forward. But, for me, what that showed me was there are people that are working on the marketing team that have these ideas, and if you let them take those ideas and run with it, then they will run through a wall if they think it's a good idea. Let them present their ideas, let them take the credit for the idea. And to me, that was the beauty of being a CMO is there were so many talented people that I could leverage and let their ideas fly.

[00:13:01] Roy Notowitz: That's amazing. So how did you get the best ideas out of your team? How did you make sure that you were hearing those ideas or encouraging that open sharing of ideas in a safe way?

[00:13:12] David Stever: Yeah, I like the quote, "Intelligence is creativity having fun," and so for me it was really all of the crazy brainstorms that we had and just really making sure that everybody felt safe to put their idea out there. There was no, like, magic process, but there was definitely magic in the collaboration, and the building upon those ideas, and having people kind of put them out there, and throwing pieces of paper around at each other of like, "What's this idea? Can you build on it?" And really it was like, "How do you build on somebody else's idea?" And making sure that everybody was participating in that sport.

[00:13:48] Roy Notowitz: When you transitioned from CMO to CEO, what surprised you the most about stepping into that top seat?

[00:13:56] David Stever: Well, as the CMO, since I had done it for, you know, again, 12, 13 years, the focus really was on the consumer, on innovation, activism. As I mentioned, I have that skilled team that is really driving a lot of the business, and then, as the CEO, you have a big, full responsibility for the business. What actually made me, uh, kind of pause when I first became the CEO was the fact that you get less autonomy doing the CEO role and you're thinking, "I'm in charge now. I should have more autonomy," but there's inputs that come from all parts of the business, all parts of the organization, whether it be from Unilever or departments, or the Ben and Jerry board, or even the founders. So I found that there was a lot of folks who were like, "Hey, tell us what you're doing," and we-- they would have, of course, inputs on how that was going. I mean, every decision has P&L implications. I think that's another big thing. The thing for me was when I became the CEO, my first instinct was to fall into the role models that I had seen go before me, and I relied heavily on, "Here's the  P&L, here's the KPIs, here's our OKRs," and I realized that I was doing it, not necessarily to the best of my abilities, because I needed to broaden my view of who the customer was and use storytelling and the strategy to inspire and motivate and get Ben & Jerry's back to business as unusual.

[00:15:19] Roy Notowitz: I love that. What did-- so tell us about business as unusual. How did that come about? It's like a mantra, right? Or a--

[00:15:26] David Stever: Yep.

[00:15:26] Roy Notowitz: --maxim that you had there.

[00:15:29] David Stever: You know, as I mentioned, we had 32 guides, which is crazy. We have the three part mission. There's the progressive value statement. And one of the things that I realized is that: how do you simplify things so the person scooping ice cream, or the person making the ice cream in the factory, or putting the chunks in the fruit feeder, how do they grab a hold of some of these concepts? And it was this idea of what's Ben & Jerry's six word story? And there have been a few different six word stories over the years. One is: "Back to business [as] unusual." Another is: "Ice cream can change the world." But if you simplify it down to these wonderful sound bites, people can really understand, like, "Oh, I'm scooping ice cream right now, you know, "chunks and swirls can save the world," and if I do my job right, I'm contributing to that. And it makes everybody, I think, get on the same page and buy into that.

[00:16:19] Roy Notowitz: So you've said. You felt more creative as a CEO than a CMO. What made that possible? Why did you feel that way?

[00:16:27] David Stever: For me, the light bulb went off in my head that, "Hey, I don't need to do the CEO role the way everybody else did it. I can do it from my strength. I can do it from the fact that I am this creative cultural connector and brand architect, and how do I take that to global town halls? How do I take that when I'm selling in a plan to target?" And, for me, it was, again, using storytelling in the strategy. One of the things that I truly believed is that the brand with the best story wins, and, internally, those stories are truly important to get people to connect, to get people to motivate, and to understand the direction of the company and where we're going. I think that, for me, that was an unlock. It was really tapping into my strength and also I think helped me create moments that were a little bit more inspiring than simply, "Here's some information team, go forward."

[00:17:21] Roy Notowitz: That's cool.

A lot of people ask me, what exactly do you do at Noto Group? We partner with entrepreneurs, founders, executives, investors, and boards to help them build high performance leadership teams that excel and endure. We've had the privilege of working with more than 250 leading brands, from early stage innovators to global icons, and we've placed hundreds of executives along the way. As a certified B Corp since 2013, and proud 1% for the Planet member, it always starts with your mission and values, and finding leaders who can bring those to life. If you're curious, you can find out more by visiting our website notogroup.com. Thanks, and now let's get back to our episode.

So Ben & Jerry's has always blended activism with commerce, and I'm curious, how did that shape your approach to leadership and influence the business priorities?

[00:18:24] David Stever: Well, as they say, the revolution must be funded. You need to kind of prove that what you're doing is working in order to say, "Hey, this is the budget we need for the social mission and the impact and influence work that we're doing." So there was this big need to prove the model so the revolution could be funded. And there was a belief around Ben & Jerry's that the strongest bonds you can create are over shared values. But we needed to prove it. And so we looked into how do we leverage IRI? How do we leverage Nielsen to prove it? And we were able to get to a point where we were able to determine that when we made a post or an ad for ice cream, it returned around three to one, which is again, really, really good.

[00:19:10] Roy Notowitz: Yeah.

[00:19:11] David Stever: But when we did an activism post or a blog about the social mission. We were getting greater returns. And then to take that even a step further, when an ice cream post followed a post about the social mission, that ice cream post actually performed even better.

[00:19:25] Roy Notowitz: Wow.

[00:19:26] David Stever: Now, to be clear, that's not why we were doing--

[00:19:28] Roy Notowitz: Right.

[00:19:29] David Stever: --our social mission, or the activism, but to be able to go back and say, "This needs to be funded because look at the results," is truly special and a, and a kind of a unlock for the brand. And then I think the other piece that we were able to do was we created a social mission tracker. And I think this really goes to the point that you got to measure what matters. And so, our social mission tracker, we weren't just measuring our performance in consumer's minds versus ice cream, but we wanted to measure how were we doing versus Toms, or Patagonia, or Seventh Generation? And were our campaigns sticking in consumer's minds? And they-- did they get the three part mission from Ben and Jerry's? And that was another piece that kind of professionalized our approach across the business.

[00:20:19] Roy Notowitz: That's brilliant. You once said that if culture isn't in your top five priorities as a leadership team, you're missing something. And so I'm curious, how would you define Ben & Jerry's culture in your own words?

[00:20:31] David Stever: Well, I think culture is really just as simple as the personality of the organization. And, with Ben and Jerry's, I think that's one of the things-- it's known to people as so many different things, but if I were to limit it down to just a few words, I would say it's irreverent, quirky, fun, an activist brand, but probably even more important, it's a brand that's being run, not as a brand, but as a company with a full heart and soul. So for me, that's really the definition.

[00:21:01] Roy Notowitz: That's awesome. So how did you bring to life or sustain that irreverent, quirky, be-who-you-are culture after scaling and being acquired and maintaining that as the company grew bigger and bigger?

[00:21:13] David Stever: One of the things I think helps a lot is the fact that we're in Vermont. Vermont is certainly a different state. It's a little akin to Austin where you know, "Keep Vermont weird." And I also think the way the business was set up, it really attracted kind of this collection of really-- activists, business people, folks from the CPG world. It was really what I would say, almost this band of Merry Pranksters. So, going back to the Ken Kesey 1960s bus tour across the US. And I always felt like it was this anti-business business. And the irony is the anti-big business business is in the middle of Unilever, which I think is something that--

[00:21:57] Roy Notowitz: Yeah.

[00:21:57] David Stever: --also is, is one of the reasons that it worked. Now, Ben & Jerry's is 46 years old now, and I think one of the things that I said is it needs to be run as a 46-year-old startup.

[00:22:10] Roy Notowitz: Mm.

[00:22:11] David Stever: It can't be a, a heritage brand. It needs to be just a brand with heritage. And, again, that mantra of back to business unusual, I think is-- has stuck across the business.

[00:22:23] Roy Notowitz: I'm sure there are lots of times where just the corporate nature of the parent company in a culture that was, maybe, less strong, might not have survived, right? So you've made hires across different stages of the company from startup to global scale up--

[00:22:39] David Stever: mm-hmm.

[00:22:39] Roy Notowitz: --and inside a multinational corporate parent. What patterns have you noticed in the people who thrive in those different environments?

[00:22:48] David Stever: I think, you know, the simple statement is it's the people who are comfortable being uncomfortable. I know that Ben and Jerry always said in the beginning, there's this myth of expertise in business, and they always said, "You don't need to be an expert to do some of the stuff we are going to need you to do." So I think throw expertise out the window, and if you want something you never had before, you're going to have to do something you've never done before. So if you want to improve the business or your own leadership, then it's going to be uncomfortable. So, I think, for me, that's the real difference is folks who are kind of okay with not being a perfectionist, but know what the opportunity is and what the goals are and they lean into it. You know, I think we've all read the book Grit, and I think that really applies to--

[00:23:33] Roy Notowitz: Yeah.

[00:23:33] David Stever: --to Ben & Jerry's and having that scrappy mindset.

[00:23:37] Roy Notowitz: I hope people rewind that part and listen to it again, because that is huge. And I think, too often, companies really look for that. Somebody who's done this before, exactly that before, and, I think, sometimes the best outcomes are from people who are feeling like they're challenged and they have guardrails or a direction--

[00:23:59] David Stever: Right.

[00:23:59] Roy Notowitz: --or a goal that they need to accomplish, and they just figure it out because they're smart. So I love that.

[00:24:04] David Stever: And they figure out in a different way than somebody who was an expert, which actually--

[00:24:07] Roy Notowitz: Better.

[00:24:08] David Stever: --probably is better.

[00:24:08] Roy Notowitz: Yeah. And maybe more insightful, maybe taking in different inputs than other people wouldn't have. I love that. And again, I think that's a huge-- a great call out. Can you share a story about a game changing hire or what you saw in them that maybe others missed that would give you an example of what we just talked about?

[00:24:26] David Stever: Yeah. I think the beauty of Ben & Jerry's is there's lots of game changing hires. I think what comes to mind for me, which may sound weird at first, and I'll explain, but I'll focus on the two timers. What I mean by that is the people that were with the company in a specific role and left and then came back.

[00:24:45] Roy Notowitz: Never heard that before. Two timers.

[00:24:46] David Stever: Yeah, exactly. When two timers are good. One person comes to mind, and they started out their career as Ben and Jerry's executive assistant. So a lot of learnings just by being with Ben and Jerry, but being their executive assistant, you probably learned a lot.

[00:25:02] Roy Notowitz: Right.

[00:25:03] David Stever: And this specific person went on to work at Greenpeace, and then they went on to also work at Seventh Generation. And then they came back to Ben & Jerry's to work on our social mission team. And they culminated their career as being the head of our social mission team and really were institutionalizing a lot of the way in which the brand activated, the way the brand had the plugin to marketing to leverage the marketing tools to reach our fans. And I would say that they really professionalized that approach. And it was because they had that time with the founders, the time away, and then came back. And then, you know, there, there's a couple people like that at Ben and Jerry's. The head of PR at Ben & Jerry's started out in the integrated marketing team through a Unilever reduction program, left, and then came back as the head of PR. And, last year, Ben & Jerry's PR numbers were about 20 billion impressions.

[00:26:03] Roy Notowitz: Wow.

[00:26:04] David Stever: Which is pretty impressive.

[00:26:05] Roy Notowitz: That's amazing.

[00:26:07] David Stever: Yep.

[00:26:08] Roy Notowitz: So you were CMO for over a decade, which is rare--

[00:26:12] David Stever: Mm-hmm.

[00:26:12] Roy Notowitz: --in an industry where there's lots of churn in that role. What was your approach to building and nurturing your marketing team across those cycles of change and growth?

[00:26:23] David Stever: A lot of it was really aligning goals, aligning kind of everything to the North Star, which was the three part mission. So, linking the company goals, the department goals, the personal goals, and making sure that was pretty clear of what needed to be accomplished. But it really was what I'll call servant leadership. Letting them present to Unilever executives, letting them present their ideas to the Ben & Jerry's board of directors. And, every year, there's a franchise meeting at Ben and Jerry's, and you would have folks come in and present on the stage to about 500, 600 people. There would always be a few Unilever folks in the audience. And what would typically happen was, you know, that VP or president of Unilever would lean over and say, "So who's this person and what do they do?" And you say, "Well, they're a, you know, they're an ABM, and they work on the scoop shop business." And they're like, "They're not a director? They're not a VP?" So it was really, I think, giving them all the opportunity to stretch.

[00:27:25] Roy Notowitz: Yeah.

[00:27:25] David Stever: To work above their grade level. And when you do that, people pretty much rise up to do it. And when you champion their ideas as well, they definitely lean into it, work harder, and the results can be exceptional.

[00:27:38] Roy Notowitz: Yeah. That's awesome. What leadership qualities and competencies did you look for in your top leadership team? Whether it was when you were CMO or CEO.

[00:27:48] David Stever: Yeah. For me, the, the primary thing that I think a leadership team needs to understand is that their number one team is that leadership team, because that leadership team needs to act as one. It can't be, you know, "Well, I'm the head of R&D over here, and I don't agree with a hundred percent of what's being brought out on the leadership team," so I think it really needs to be that connector. Connector across all departments. And so, for me, that's one of the big things is making sure that that is the case. The other piece for me is they need to be a culture amplifier. So they need to model the values of the company.

[00:28:29] Roy Notowitz: I love that.

[00:28:29] David Stever: I think anybody in leadership ne-- needs to have a bias for action. And I think last, but not least is, and sometimes this is the hardest part, right, is make yourself replaceable. And if you're doing that, then you're probably leading the right way.

[00:28:42] Roy Notowitz: So you would look for that in people that you hired into your leadership team?

[00:28:46] David Stever: Yes, for sure.

[00:28:47] Roy Notowitz: What do you believe interviewers often overlook when trying to assess the right fit? Just based on your experience.

[00:28:53] David Stever: Yeah, I know that I've hired a lot of folks at Ben and Jerry's, and I really love it when an interview turns into a conversation, and it feels less about me asking questions, and it's more about them telling their story. So that's one thing that I really feel is definite. And once you've got an interview, it really is a question of: is there chemistry? Because if you've got the interview, it's pretty sure you can do the job. So then it becomes a question of chemistry. And one of the things that I usually like to do is I like to ask people that I interview, give me a couple reasons why you're not the right candidate. And, for me, that really is about them knowing their strengths and weaknesses, and also being able to be honest of, like, where they may fall short in the job description or in the career history. And then, one of the other questions I typically like to ask is the old teacher question, which is get them to ask their own question. So, for me, it's if you only have one question that you can ask all of the candidates to determine if they're the right person for the job, what's your magic question? And then the heads up is that they have to answer their magic question. And, typically, everybody comes up with a great question, but then they realize that they may not have the right answer for their own question. They want to say that, "Oh, I want to, you know, ask a question around culture and fit and make sure that they're going to, you know, be the right person from a culture and fit perspective." Or they get real technical and start going down that road. But, for me, what I think we all-- we're in an interview and we want that interview to go well, the interviewer does, the person on the other side of the table does, the person being interviewed, and I think we forget that, sometimes, we're going to have to make that interview uncomfortable because we all kind of want to come out of there feeling good about it. So, for me, that's where those questions of, you know, look at the job description and tell me the things that you really think you're going to get right in the first 90 days, and then give me the two things that you're not going to get right.

[00:30:58] Roy Notowitz: Okay. That's great. Looking ahead, what excites you most about this next chapter?

[00:31:05] David Stever: Yeah. I obviously have had the benefit of working on one of the most beloved brands, you know, that being Ben and Jerry's. And one of the things that I think I've learned to do really well is driving differentiation. When you think about it, there's lots of good ice cream out there, and Ben & Jerry's being set up as a different company by the founders and me being able to take that and continue to stretch it is something that I think is a key strength. I like to say that nobody notices normal in today's world, right? So--

[00:31:33] Roy Notowitz: So true.

[00:31:33] David Stever: --If you've got a brand that's playing by the rules, it's probably normal and probably not going to be around in 10 years. And there's a, a percentage -- I might get the percentage slightly wrong -- but uh, the percentage that I've heard is 76% of brands people don't care about. And so, for me, I think that I can bring that ability to create a brand, help build a brand, help accelerate a brand that people will care about and will be sticky in people's minds. And, to me, that's the exciting part. And so I'm really at this point in my career, looking at that intersection of purpose and profit. And is there a business out there where I can be incremental to their thinking? Whether that's on a board, or advisory, or back at the C-suite.

[00:32:18] Roy Notowitz: I'm sure whatever is next will be really meaningful, and I'm looking forward to seeing that. So one question I do have remaining actually is maybe the most important question: out of all of the flavors that you've tasted, which I'm sure-- thousands. What were your top three favorite ones?

[00:32:40] David Stever: Picking your three favorites? That's a difficult ask, but I will say that I've tasted a lot of ice cream, and you know, I do like ice cream from other companies, just to be clear. There's other folks that make good ice cream, but for Ben and Jerry's, I mentioned already Chunky Monkey because that was a flavor that came out when I started, and to me that's just such a unique flavor. It's banana flavored ice cream with chocolate chunks and walnuts.

[00:33:03] Roy Notowitz: Mmm.

[00:33:04] David Stever: I helped create-- it was actually walking the plant floor with the head of Vermont Manufacturing at the time, and we came up with this idea for Core Concoctions, and so that's how Caramel Sutra was born.

[00:33:17] Roy Notowitz: Oh, cool.

[00:33:17] David Stever: And Caramel Sutra is caramel ice cream on one side, chocolate ice cream with chocolate chips on another side, and a center of caramel going down the middle. So  Caramel Sutra would also be up on that list. And then probably New York Super Fudge Chunk, which is chocolate ice cream with white chocolate, dark chocolate, chocolate covered almonds, pecans, and walnuts.

[00:33:40] Roy Notowitz: Wow.

[00:33:40] David Stever: So those would probably be my top three.

[00:33:42] Roy Notowitz: Wow. That's cool. I

know it's hard to choose, but--

[00:33:44] David Stever: Yeah, and it depends, depends on the day and depends on how you're feeling.

[00:33:49] Roy Notowitz: Yeah. Yeah. What are you going to do without three pint, pints a day? Or how often did you take advantage of--?

[00:33:56] David Stever: Yeah.

[00:33:56] Roy Notowitz: Three pints. What do you do with all those pints, I guess, is the question?

[00:33:59] David Stever: Yeah. I think there's a lovely Vermont barter system going on where most people aren't paying for ice cream, and they're probably getting discounts on getting their car fixed, so that certainly goes on.

[00:34:09] Roy Notowitz: That's funny. My sister lives in Burlington and some of her neighbors work at Ben and Jerry's, and so I think she's been a beneficiary of some of those pints. Well, it's been super great talking to you. I really have enjoyed our conversation, and getting to know you, and I'm looking forward to seeing what's next.

[00:34:29] David Stever: Yeah, I appreciate it, Roy. Thank you so much, and love the podcast, and thanks for inviting me on.

[00:34:35] Roy Notowitz: Thanks for tuning in to How I Hire. Visit howihire.com for details about the show. How I Hire is created by Noto Group Executive Search. To find out more about us, visit notogroup.com. You can also sign up for our monthly email job alert newsletter there and find additional job search strategy resources, as well as more content on hiring. This podcast was produced by Anna McClain. To learn more about her and her team's work, visit aomcclain.com.

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